tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 1, 2011 1:00am-2:00am EST
>> absolutely. after i've won. >> i feel like tv needs you. you're one of life's great characters. you've fallen by the wayside a little bit, but everyone's entitled to a second go. >> there you go. >> i wish you luck with it. >> thank you. keep winning. >> an extraordinary interview with charlie sheen. i mean what i say, i hope they resolve it, and he's back on one of the best shows on tv, after all. that's all for us for now. here's my colleague anderson cooper with "ac 360." >> thank you very much, piers. it is 5:00 a.m. in libya right now. moammar gadhafi faced reporters today and spun a story of what he says is happening in libya. it was a story. he says the people love him, his son says everything is peaceful. tonight you will hear their statements and then you will hear the facts of what is happening, you will hear facts
and see evidence for yourselves, you will learn the truth from our reporters on the ground and the libyan people themselves trapped in their homes in many cases, speaking out, no longer letting fear rule their lives. new video tonight, fighting taking place, about 130 miles to the east of tripoli where anti-government protesters are in control. listen to the fire. [ gunfire ] >> you can see some of the tracer fire. when aimed at human beings, it is devastating. also, 30 miles west of tripoli, this is the scene. the city controlled by anti-government protesters tonight. but gadhafi's grip on tripoli remains tight. though his grip on reality does not. take a look at his newest interview, talking about how his
people love him. >> they love me, my people love me. they love me all. >> but you -- >> they will die to protect me, my people. >> you say they do love you, then why are they capturing ben gazi, and they say they're against you? >> there's a guide -- it's guided, these are not my people. they came from outside. >> saying it's al qaeda. moammar gadhafi blaming al qaeda again. america's u.n. ambassador calling his statements delusional. whatever you call them, you can add his latest comments to a list of lies he's been telling for days. listen. >> rbg has been provided to ben gazi by the americans. the youth, 16, 17-year-old are
not guilty because they are manipulated by people from tunisia. these people come from outside. >> gadhafi's son who has for years paraded around the west and united states in silk suits talking about reforms and trying to attract investors to libya. listen to what he told christian amanpour. >> it's fake. there's a big gap between what is happening and media reports. >> some may say there is a big gap between what you're thinking and saying to me. >> the whole south has come, the west has come. the middle has come.
even part of the east. >> some might say. well, that is a fact. everything is peaceful, he claims, and it is a fact, it is not. he denies killing libyans. let's just repeat that, the gadhafi regime is claiming everything is peaceful and they have not slaughtered civilians in the streets. i want to show you a new reality. it's disturbing video. when a ruler claims their hands are clean, the only way to show you they are not is to show you how blood soaked those hands really are. >> the stories of these two men who are clearly dead.
we talked to a doctor in a hospital who has seen many dead and wounded for days. >> he's lying. they're all lying. the killing of people every day. that's what they're doing now. just to protect theirselves and their regime. >> well, the gadhafis deny it, but ban ki-moon estimates 1,000 people have been killed in libya so far. america's ambassador to libya says the number may be closer to 2,000 people. when gadhafi's son gives interviews to western reporters he tries to seem reasonable. but look at him in tripoli, bran dishing a weapon promising to his support irs to get more weapons. >> don't leave your country for vague rants, these people are not an army or anything, they are just trash, have a grants.
today we'll go out in tripoli, you'll live in it, and they won't be able to say anything. i'm going now. i'll be sending you the weaponry, and tonight i'm out to get more of it. >> the son promising more weaponry to fight an uprising his father denies is happening. the best rebuttal of the spin is coming from the libyan people, all of whom are taking great risk to talk with us. >> what is the situation right now in your town? >> currently the city is in the hands of the opposition. there have been some skirmishes on the outskirts of the city. i live in an area called hadad, and there have been attacks on the radio antenna, that's about a mile from my home for the past three days. >> attacks by government forces?
>> yes. >> and you've heard this? >> yes, i did. what is the reasons -- the reason they're trying to attack the antenna, is the opposition forces are using the radio station to organize the city. and so that's the reason there have been so many attacks. >> are you scared? >> sometimes. sometimes i am, honestly. other times i'm not, it just depends on how much shooting is going on, or what kind of reports are coming through the media outlets at any given time. >> do you think that tripoli will continue to remain in gadhafi hands? >> no, i don't. you know, this regime has been here for 42 years, and it's reached its end. i'm confident that the regime will fall soon. if not today, tomorrow. if not tomorrow, then within the
next week or two or three, but his time has come to an end, he's oppressed the libyan people for over four decades. we're not -- prior to the protests, people were afraid to speak on the phone. they couldn't talk in the street. people spoke in hush tones. my father's a member of the opposition, and so i was born and raised in california, but we had family members who were too afraid to call us, to keep in touch. or even when my father came here, they were too afraid to speak to him. so people have been afraid and living under his tyranny for too long. too much blood has been she had, and too many people have been injured for this regime. >> you hear gadhafi and his son speak, they say they haven't been killing civilians, there aren't even protests in tripoli
itself. >> to say that is ridiculous, i don't think that at this point anyone believes those kinds of things. gadhafi has been making all kinds of things, he says at one moment, all of the libyan people are taking hallucinogens. at other times he's saying we're members of an extremist muslim group. he's making all kinds of nonsensical statements. >> his son saif, who many in the west considered the most reform minded, the western oriented, walked around in nice slick suits. he seems to be saying the exact same things his father is saying. >> he's as barbaric as his father, when he spoke, the first address of the nation. we thought he was going to talk of reforms, the same way we heard leaders in egypt and tunisia. he came saying that libya was
going to turn into another algeria, and that women were going to be raped and whole cities were going to be massacred, and all sorts of these veiled threats. he's like his father if not worse. >> when you hear them say they will arm citizens, they will open up the arsenols, does that scare you? does that worry you? >> i don't believe that. you know, he's too afraid that the people would use those against him. i don't believe those claims, he's too afraid. >> what do you want people to know about what is happening right now. >> that libyans are not members of -- not everyone's on drugs, we're fighting for our basic rights. the right to freedom, education, health care, clean water. the right to -- just basic human
rights, and that we will continue to fight until this regime falls. >> take care. thank you for talking to us. >> thank you. >> again, another woman risking her life to tell us what's happening from her vantage point in libya. we have extensive coverage tonight, fouad ajami is with us. we sit down with a reporter who talked to gadhafi. i'm interested to hear if she thinks it gadhafi believes these things he's saying. the signs in the crowd here are saying things like gadhafi, you blood sucker. you and your family have to go. they're also calling, we want guns. we want guns. when i grow up,
i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to work with kids. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] together we can discover the best of what's next at aarp.org. this is mary...
who has a million things to pick up each month on top of her prescriptions. so she was thrilled that her walgreens pharmacist recommended a 3-month supply and would always be there to answer questions about her health. now mary gets 3 refills in one and for 3 months, she's done. more or less. ask your pharmacist about a 90 day supply and get a free gift. walgreens. there's a way to stay well.
should i bundle all my policies with nationwide insurance ? watch this. on one hand, you have your home insurance with one company. and on another hand, you have your auto with another. and on another hand, you have your life with another. huh... but when you bundle them all together with nationwide insurance... ... they all work together perfectly-- and you could save 25%. wow... it's all in the wrists. ♪ nationwide is on your side new video just translated. these are the weapons they used against the people of mizrata. this is coming from a man who seems to be a doctor. these are all the kind of
weapons to kill the youth. in the meantime, american warships are moving closer to libya. the u.s. and nato weighing a no fly zone. the global community is distancingself from the gadhafi regime. >> they love me. all my people with me. they love me all. >> but if they do love you -- >> they will die to protect me and my people. no, no, no. >> if you say they do love you, then why are they capturing bengazi and -- >> there is a guide, not my people. they come from outside. >> gadhafi spoke with abc news, the bbc and my next guest, a foreign affairs correspondent for the london times. thanks for being on the program. you interviewed gadhafi before, how did he seem to you now as compared to the past. >> this will seem strange, but he seemed more energized and
relaxed. he laughed often during the program, when we asked him questions. he seemed to find some of the things we were saying amusing. >> i don't want to ask you to be an arm chair psychologist. maybe you can't answer this question. does he believe the stuff he's saying. does he appear to believe it's al qaeda? does he believe these people are on drugs that is being put in their milk? >> there were other things he said that led one to wonder exactly that. he said there is -- there were no demonstrations at all in libya. when he asked if he was giving the army orders. he said there was no army in libya. but this man did not remain in power in absolute power, remember, for 42 years being that uninformed that he did not know demonstrations were
sweeping his country. about half of his country is out of his control. he does say it with great conviction, however. >> what's the vantage for him to be saying and his son to be saying, you know, everything's peaceful here, there's no problems? >> i don't see any advantage in that. i think he met with us for two reasons. one of the reasons was to -- there are a lot of rumors sweeping -- in fact reports outside that he left libya. this is the first time i interviewed him in any kind of setting with a window. we interviewed him bizarrely again in a fish restaurant with large windows that looked out over the port of tripoli. he was making it clear at least subliminally that i am here, i am in libya. that seemed to be important to him. in terms of why -- anyone would
be convinced by him saying there's no army, no demonstrations, i really don't have a clue. >> maria, i want to bring in our own nic robertson joining me and fouad ajami nic, the situation in tripoli is what? >> there are more cars on the streets, a lot armed soldiers, armed policemen. checkpoints in the neighborhood where we've heard and been told and con seemed the remnants of protests, there are riot police in armored police vehicles. the city feels as if it's sort of getting back on its feet and people are losing a bit of their fear and coming out of their homes more than perhaps a couple days ago. but the feeling is still far, far from normal. i mean, people are on edge.
they're slightly less afraid now. they're terrified of even talking to us right now on the streets. we talked to some of them and they're frankly shaking with fear that they might be seen doing that. and picked up -- it looks okay. looks partly okay, but it's far from all right there. >> two quick questions. how free are you to move around? are there government minders with you? say what you will, or what you can about that? i heard the government is not only paying protesters to come to progadhafi rallies, they've started handing out money to citizens. >> you know, we talked to a government official about people being paid money to come out and protest. he said no absolutely not. this guy has been educated in the west, he wants regime change as well. he thinks the government's handled this wrong, and the
country should not be in this situation, changes should have been made five or six years ago. when we told him he wanted to go into a neighborhood where there was a protest this afternoon. he told the driver to get us back to the hotel. earlier in day we could go wherever we want, talk to whoever we want. when people see is the camera they say like moammar gadhafi. but they too want regime change, they don't want it with violence. we even got to see those opposition supporters yesterday in the town 40 minutes drive from here. it seemed bizarre the government would take us to see people who were trying to overthrow them, yet they did that. anderson? >> fouad, i've been getting tweets from people hearing news reporters calling the anti-government protesters rebels. it's not a term that's really correct, is it? >> these are not rebels, these
are the people of libya. now we have arrived at this moment. the laws of gravity, versus moammar gadhafi. the laws of gravity, all around him, his country has been lost to him. one major cleric, a man of religion has just issued a statement saying, you can't fight for this man, you can't follow his orders. the fighting has fallen into the hands of the rebel forces, the opposition forces to moammar gadhafi. and in his bunker, we know what the bunker of truth is,the bunker leads to a certain view of the world. people love me, people want me. >> do you think he believes that? >> i don't think we really know that. i don't think anyone can say with any great certainty. there is one thing i would like to say at this point about this great story. this rebellion began on february 17th, and it feels like we've been covering moammar gadhafi since an eternity. this is 11 days in the making.
the idea that a regime of this much tenacity, that much repression, that this regime would fall in less than 11 or 12 days, that was already optimistic, we were spoiled by tunisia and egypt. >> spoiled by the quickness of that? and the relative ease. >> and the peacefulness of it. >> marie, do you -- how difficult is it for you as a reporter in tripoli? i mean, you have an extraordinary career, you've worked in a lot of very tough places. how does this compare? >> tripoli's deceptive, it's like being in the eye of the storm. it's a bit easier for me than it is for nic. i don't have a camera, i can travel around quietly with a notebook. for example, this morning i jumped in a taxi and went around. i can see for myself the square is not full of gadhafi supporters, it was completely
empty. that said two things. i'm hearing -- i've been coming here for quite a while. i'm hearing anger expressed more openly than i've ever heard it expressed before. and as nick was saying, it's very interesting from government -- even government supporters are saying they are not expressing outright love, they are saying they want regime change, they want reform. but they're afraid of the violence. and tripoli is, it seems calm, but it is ringed by gadhafi's elite units, whatever does happen in terms of the regime change, i think it has to happen from within tripoli, because the rebels, whatever we want to call them in bengazi, they're not organized, they have guns but no weapons, whatever is going to
happen to this regime will happen right here in this city. >> and that's what makes the battle for libya so potentially drawn out, as long as he's able to hold on to tripoli -- >> absolutely. we have to come to a battle for tripoli. now, can these forces assemble enough power to hit -- to come and flush this guy out of the spider hole, out of his bunker? this is what gives this war it's scary dimension. they have to come to the theory that he controls and they have to win against him. this really is what this conflict is all about now. will the outside world even this battle if you will. will it come to the help of these people in ben ghazi. i personally believe we should recognize the provisional government in ben ghazi. we no longer believe that there is a regime in tripoli, we believe the regime in ben ghazi. the people in ben ghazi represent the people of libya.
this would make a tremendous difference. >> thanks for being on the program. i appreciate it. coming up, strong words from the u.s. and u.s. ambassador to the u.n. using words like delusional to describe gadhafi. is there going to be reaction too back up any of the words. later on in the program, another big question. what would actually take its place? what groups are actually in the country. we'll talk with fouad and bob bear about that. e hospital with heart-related chest pain or a heart attack known as acs, you may not want to face the fact that you're at greater risk of a heart attack or stroke. plavix helps protect people with acs against heart attack or stroke: people like you. it's one of the most researched prescription medicines. goes beyond what they do alone by helping to keep blood platelets from sticking and forming dangerous clots. plavix. protection against heart attack or stroke
in people with acs. [ female announcer ] plavix is not for everyone. certain genetic factors and some medicines such as prilosec reduce the effect of plavix leaving you at greater risk for heart attack and stroke. your doctor may use genetic tests to determine treatment. don't stop taking plavix without talking to your doctor as your risk of heart attack or stroke may increase. people with stomach ulcers or conditions that cause bleeding should not use plavix. taking plavix alone or with some other medicines, including aspirin, may increase bleeding risk, which can potentially be life threatening, so tell your doctor when planning surgery. tell your doctor all medicines you take, including aspirin, especially if you've had a stroke. if fever, unexplained weakness or confusion develops, tell your doctor promptly. these may be signs of ttp, a rare but potentially life-threatening condition, reported sometimes less than two weeks after starting plavix. executor of efficiency. you can spot an amateur from a mile away... while going shoeless and metal-free in seconds. and you...rent from national.
well, the united states responds to the situation in libya, so far includes trying to hit the gadhafi family financially, and discussing military strategies. president obama met with u.n. secretary-general ban ki-moon. gadhafi lost legitimacy when he declared war on his people. secretary clinton said gadhafi has to be held accountable for anything that violates international law and common decency. susan rice called gadhafi unfit to lead. >> it sounds frankly delusional. and when he can laugh in talking to american and international journalists, while he is slaughtering his own people. it only underscores how unfit he is to lead. and how disconnected he is from reality.
it makes all the more important the urgent steps that we have taken over the course of the last week on a national basis. as well as the steps that we've taken collectively through the united nations and the security council. and we're going to continue to keep the pressure on. >> foreign affairs correspondent jill doherty joins us from the state department. where does the u.s. stand in terms of actual efforts to stop gadhafi? >> i think you'd have to say there are different levels now of, what they're trying to do is tighten the noose, ratchet it up. if you begin with the dwip low mattic economic side, these are sanctions. the biggest part of that for the united states is freezing $30 billion in assets held by gadhafi, his family and the government. and, in fact, the treasury department today said that is the largest amount that has been frozen in this type of sanction. also, secretary clinton herself signed an order on a travel ban
that stops the visas for gadhafi and his family and other members of the government. and finally, the u.s. is joining the united nations in these joint sanctions including an arms embargo and other things, and then you have the humanitarian side of it, the u.s. is sending usaid is sending two teams, there are thousands of people moving to those adjoining countries, egypt and tunisia, they've sent two teams there to assess the situation. it's a serious, urgent issue. >> fouad was just talking to me during the break saying there is not a huge constituency in congress calling for harder action, except for john mccain and joe lieberman. they said the u.s. needs to get tough, in their words, not just impose a no fly zone, but recognize the oppositional government in benghazi and possibly arm the libyan opposition.
are those things on the stable? >> arming at this point does not seem at all to be on the table. they're certainly talking to the opposition, one of the problems is, they're trying to assess who will end up on top. who is the opposition, what do they want? i guess you'd have to say there's no appetite for using u.s. troops, certainly. there is a talk of the no fly zone. even that, anderson, they say could be problematical, because the u.s. can't just unilaterally have a no fly zone. they have to do it in concert with other countries. and that means usually the united nations, and you have countries like china and russia who would oppose that. >> joining us now from washington, former deputy defense secretary paul wolfowitz. and a los angeles former native, general wesley clark. a senior fellow at ucla's college of nations.
>> i would like to focus on what needs to be done now. i think this business of tightening the noose and ratcheting up is not going to have any effect on a gang of criminals that are literally fighting for their lives. >> what can be done, do you think? >> i think, first of all, something that we should be doing right away, without any hesitation, is a large scale humanitarian relief. there's clearly a need for medical supplies, even blood is running short in these hospitals, i think there's a food shortage emerging, it's something that would not be controversial, but would send a message we care about these people. too often in the past, in iraq a few years ago. it's unfortunately a long list of situations where people have cried out for help and the u.s. has sat on its hands, we shouldn't be sitting on our hands now. i think it's very important to do more than just be talking with people. i heard professor ajami say we should recognize the provisional government.
we should be talking to these authorities, particularly in benghazi, find out what they have in mind, establish standards if standards are needed for recognizing a provisional government. and then we wouldn't be talking so abstractly about what we need to do. we would be talking to the people in libya about what they need, that's crucial. >> what about the possibility of a no fly zone? from what i've read, it's really only been effective when it's a very small area that you're covering. >> it's a big area. you have to get the legal basis for it, otherwise it's just the united states going to war against a country. when you do this, you need a u.n. security council resolution, you need to understand that when you put this in, if enemy radar comes up and you're tracked, you're going to launch a missle and destroy it. if you've given it warning and it doesn't respond, you're going to shoot it down. what if it's a transport plane.
then you have the technical problem of helicopters. you have a big country, you can get the fast movers, you know how many there are, where they are. helicopters is tough, it means a lot more aircraft overhead, and a lot more difficult engagements. >> what do you think about what secretary wolf has said about moving forward about humanitarian relief starting off? >> i think that's definitely something we should be talking about. we should ideally do it with our allies, so it's not a unilateral u.s. action. it's frustrating, events on the ground tend to outrun the pace at which you can muster consensus and bring dip low mastic and legal pressures to bear. that's always the trouble in these situations. so humanitarian, fine, it's a reasonable step. if you put troops in, though, with it, then the troops are going to be armed, they're going to defend themselves, and so that's the way you get down into the slippery slope of intervention.
we want to do this with our allies and with u.n. authorization. we need to push in that direction. >> at what point -- >> they're already in there ahead of us. i think we need to do more than talking. if we were talking to the provisional authorities, and derecognizing this gang in tripoli, and begin to say we're looking for the legitimate government of libya, some of these legal issues would be different, i think what we'd be hearing, because you hear it often through cnn and other outlets. i think cnn is getting high marks from the egyptian people and the libyan people, and that's something very important. what we're hearing is, we don't wants foreign troops, we're brave. look at the bravery of these people walking with their hands in the air unarmed against machine guns, there's no lack of bravery, they may want a no fly zone, i don't know. i'm pretty sure what they're going to say is, we can fight if you give us the means to do so. >> you hear from senator mccain and lieberman about the idea of arming the opposition, there's a
lot of folks that will hear that and say, you don't know where those arms may end up down the road. what do you think of that idea? >> it sounds to me like more dithering and inaction. there are problems with anything you do, but there's a crisis here. you've been eloquent about the innocent people that are being slaughtered as this goes on. and the representation of the united states is taking a terrible beating. >> you're saying arm opposition. >> i'm saying, talk to the opposition, find out what they need. if the requests are reasonable, fill them. we face these decisions every day with legitimate governments we supply weapons to. this is essentially a legitimate government that's in a fight for its life, we should be able to answer the questions. >> what do you think about that? >> i don't think the united states is taking a terrible beating from our friends and allies, we're working closely with them. certainly we should be talking about, and maybe being able to put in humanitarian aide. i don't want to see our troops going in there until there's a legal mandate to two it. i don't went to get too much into the past.
we have two wars in the middle east right now we're engaged in. we don't want to appear as though we're invading libya. that helps gadhafi, doesn't hurt him. >> i could not agree with you more. >> we need a legal mandate, we need to go in with our allies. we need to have a clear policy. when we make the decision that he's got to go, we need the legal backing that says he has to go. an international criminal court indictment would be helpful at this stage, and we may get it if he continues with the kind of actions that his troops and his mercenaries are perpetrating in tripoli. >> arnder son, let me be clear, i'm not talking about invading libya, i don't think libyan's want american troops on the ground. they do not want an occupation. they are very brave people who have been fighting for themselves, we should find out how we can help them. give us the means and we will do the job. >> secretary wolf, i appreciate you being on. fouad, i know you wanted to get in the conversation.
>> i have to agree with paul wolfowitz, he was my boss, my dean. we've been through this before, if we hesitated in the balkans, and more than 100,000 bosnians died needlessly, it turned out the serbians were no match for the american power. look at the map, benghazi and tripoli are coastal cities. we have a tremendous amount of support we can deploy there. >> you're saying talking to the people in benghazi? >> absolutely. and we have to recognize them as a legitimate government. and president obama has to put his fingerprints on this fight. he's outsourced the statements to susan rice, secretary clinton. he's even said that gadhafi has to go, in a conversation with anglo american, why don't we hear from the president himself? why doesn't he own this question?
one of the great questions of our time? >> general clark, just quickly to respond to that. how due think the obama administration has handled this? >> i think you keep the president reserved, he worked the policy, secretary of state clinton's already said that he's lost his -- the gadhafi's lost his mandate and legitimacy. we're clearly marking out the policy, and if we work this in a systematic way, it will work out the right way for the people in libya. and for the united states. let's not get ahead of ourselves. >> appreciate all your perspective, again, general clark, secretary wolfowitz thank you. i'll have more with fouad in a moment. the opposition vowing they will gain control in tripoli. the question is, what happens if and when gadhafi and his family fall? who will step into the power vacuum. we've reported that stars like beyonce, usher and mariah
carey have all performed for the gadhafis in exchange for millions of dollars. well, today, another music star stood up and announced they now plan to donate the money they received from the libyan leader's family, we'll tell you [ male announcer ] america's beverage companies are working together to put more information right up front. adding new calorie labels to every single can, bottle and pack they produce. so you can make the choice that's right for you. ♪
now in this part of the country, the anti-gadhafi forces are trying to organize themselves to take the fight to tripoli. >> as we said, that will be the key. whether or not they're going to be able to organize themselves and actually make an assault on tripoli, remains to be seen. that was ben wedeman in eastern libya. the protesters are united right now by the common goal, getting rid of gadhafi. they are also a diverse group with tribal ties that may make it difficult for them to maintain a united front. who will fill the void in and when gadhafi falls? al qaeda and other terror cells could certainly try to exploit the situations we're seeing elsewhere. what happens after gadhafi, joining me now is bob bear and author of "the company we keep." he's a cia officer, and fouad ajami is back with us as well. the gadhafis keep saying there will be a civil war after
gadhafi. is that possible? >> all december pots by their right are indispensable. after them, the deluge. this is a country that's been tormented for a long time. there will be a vacuum, the man ate the green and the dry in his own country. >> he ate the green and the dry? >> exactly. when you look at what they've done to people. >> right. >> when you look at what they've done to power, it's said that only the ministry of oil has any power, has any kind of continuity to it. >> the minister employs all of his sons, gives stipends to this? >> absolutely. go back, you now have a fund of experience here at ac 360, these people who write to you all the time, who write to us, we share their messages, tens of thousands of libyans have studied abroad, these are very educated people. when you hear them talking, you
hear them diction, you hear the rantings of moammar gadhafi, you understand this is an educated country yearning to be free. lawyers, professors, engineers, there are many, many exiles who have left libya, not because they hated their country. they wish to go back. we should trust the libyans with their freedom. this is fundamental. >> we have seen and heard of revolutions in the past that get diverted. gadhafi's trying to play up this al qaeda fear. how possible do you think that is al qaeda moving into a vacuum to create chaos? >> i think they're going to try to move in to libya at this point. there are networks in moli, niger, that gadhafi himself has invited back to sell more chaos, they are a small minority, but they can do a lot of damage.
but they can put a veneer on this that's going to make it look like chaos. that's gadhafi's plan saying, you made a big mistake getting rid of me, i put the militants in jail, i helped you with al qaeda and afghanistan, and look what you've done. here's what you get in return. gadhafi would like to turn over the table. i think we're going to see a bit of violence. as far as this revolution being hijacked by some sort of al qaeda, no. the question is,how long will the chaos go on. >> right, and in other places, fouad, in egypt you had the military. in indonesia, you have a strong military which can function. you don't have that in libya. if after gadhafi, there really aren't democratic institutions, is it just some other thug who's been aligned to the regime who takes power? >> here is something that -- let's say a word of praise for
moammar gadhafi, ironically, he has done something for the people of libya. he has done something for them during this ordeal. he's given them a sense of national unity. on both borders, in egypt and tunisia, there's strong traditions of national identity, the tunisians have always known they're tunisians, the egyptians always tell you of the 7,000 years and it's true, that they have been egyptians. libya is a new construct, it's a construct of the 1950s. out of this new revolution, as the people in tripoli are thinking rescue will come from the people of bengaza. a kind of libya is being forged before our eyes. i don't think people are going to fight this bloody dictator andthousands of people. they're not going to lose that many people and then hand over their liberty to a bunch of al qaeda fighters.
>> bob, what do you see coming down the pike, assuming gadhafi gets taken out at some point. >> i think we'll see some sort of kohlessing of forces inside libya, they're going to want to fill this vacuum. i don't have much confidence in the exiles that spent all these years away from libya. >> you mean the exiled opposition? >> yes. we dealt with them for 25 years, they were never reliable. i don't see them being parachuted in to bring order to the country. we need to get in touch with the leadership in benghazi. sort them out, and help them out without making look like there's an american intervention. >> why was it so tough to overthrow gadhafi. i did my college thesis paper on cia under the reagan administration.
you look at the guy he seals delusional and laughable. how did he control the country for 42 years and make it difficult for outside powers to do something about it? >> well, number one, he eadvice ra evisorated the army. he came to power by a coupe. there is no army to speak of. it's not a cohesive force. the opposition, he immediately ran out of the country. they just -- most of them are muslim brothers, they didn't know what they were doing. they tried, we were in the middle of this in 1984, an attack on aziz barracks, it was a fiasco, they didn't come close. and gadhafi is a survivor. what's come up this time is totally -- was unpredicted by his inner circle, completely
unpredicted, he doesn't know how to deal with it, other than shooting people in the street. he will ultimately lose, because the tribes will all turn against him. >> we have to leave you there. bob baer, appreciate you being on the program again, and as always, the fascinating fouad ajami. the obama administration has taken steps to drill again in the gulf. and the interview of charlie sheen on piers morgan. we'll have more on that ahead. ] it's lobsterfest. the one time of year red lobster creates so many irresistible ways to treat yourself to lobster. like our new lobster-and-shrimp trio with a parmesan lobster bake, our decadent lobster lover's dream with both sweet maine and buttery rock lobster tails and eleven more choices, each served with a salad and unlimited cheddar bay biscuits. come celebrate lobsterfest right now at red lobster.
you've never held it in your hand, then unleashed it with a fingertip. never watched pixels whip by at 1 ghz and had your neurons struggle to keep up. you've never seen fast because you've never seen this. the droid incredible by htc. it's nothing short of its name. now get the droid incredible by htc for $99.99.
when you're a stunt woman, work can be pretty unpredictable. from knowing when my next job will be to what i'll actually be doing. so in the rest of my life i like control. especially in my finances. that's why i have slate with blueprint. i can make a plan to pay off everyday things and avoid interest, or pay down my balance faster on the big stuff. that saves money. with slate from chase, i have everything under control... ♪ ...financially. announcer: debit card control and credit card flexibility. get both with slate.
recent presidential election, but he's refusing to give up the presidency. an electoral commission declared watara the winner of november's election. now there's a bizarre stand-off where he's being protected by u.n. peacekeepers hold up in a hotel in the capitol of the ivory coast. the u.n. team was sent to look at reports that the country of belarus defied an arms embargo. the government of belarus denies the reports and the u.n. team had to withdraw with finish the investigation. the former president and duly elected president clashed in the streets of the capital. articled loyalists have committed gross human rights
violations again their supporters, including burning people alive, gunning them down in public and committing sexual assaults. isha sesay is joining us with the 360 news and business bulletin. isha? >> nelly furtado says she will donate the $1 million she received for singing for moammar gadhafi's family last year. she tweeted the decision today. the last world war i veteran dies. he was 110. plans are in the works for his burial at arlington national cemetery. for the first time since the bp disaster, the obama administration has approved a permit to drill a deep water oil well in the gulf of mexico. the moratorium on deep water drilling was lifted in october. actor charlie sheen has cured his substance abuse addictions on his own with his mind. he's alleged that cbs, which put
his sitcom on hiatus is trying to take his money and destroy his family. here's what else he had to say when he sat down with piers morgan tonight. >> are you under the influence right now of any substances? >> no, nothing. i'm under the influence of you. >> the premise of their argument with you, is that you're in some kind of denial about this, and you've never really stopped and thought, i've got to sort myself out properly. >> and then i can have a life like theirs? i'm going to pass. >> why. >> because i'm a winner, and their lives look like they're ruled by losers. ty don't want their lives but they want mining and they criticize it. >> you have two girlfriends. >> i do. it's been described as the wedge. >> what is the wedge? >> it's a formation that controls the guy carrying the ball, in a football term. >> with your kids, in particular. a lot of parents say to me, ask charlie, when he wakes up from these things, how do you feel about the reaction they're going
to have? >> that's not something i can control. i can control them not being exposed to anything dangerous at any point in time. >> you never had any drugs in the house when your kids were around? >> no. >> have you ever hit a woman? >> no. women are not to be hit, they're to be hugged and caressed. >> his motto is to live life to the full. >> yeah, i mean -- >> yeah. >> i'm -- i have no comment. a lot more at the top of the hour, serious stuff, starting with moammar gadhafi's claim that libyans love him.